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Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
98
   |
Posted - 2014.09.11 09:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Aquila Sagitta wrote:Can someone tl;dr pls
Can make an attempt-
WH Effects Changes: Good, Esp Black Holes. Makes creative ship doctrine / fittings viable.
Random WH's and Frigate holes: "Interesting". In favor of increased connectivity. Good overall. Could add frigate fleets to the wormhole meta. Frigate holes are like "keyholes" into isolated systems. The downside is their difficulty to collapse favors big groups over small groups. Their usefulness varies widely depending on class of wormhole and system effects. Ppl with expensive clones and implants less likely to use them.
2nd C4 Static: Has personal experience with it and is happy with this change. Bigger chains = more content. Noted there are two groups of players in w-space - those who wanna be left alone and those that wanna ruin your day. This change (and others) favored the latter group. However, more connections means more space for small groups to exploit to make isk in. Even if most ppl leave C4's due to the added risks, those that stay will have an easier time/more options (I assume he means more choices for places to live and fewer neutrals passing thru = less risk). Need some more PvE content to help compensate for the added risks. In agreement with Corby on this.
K162 changes: Bit torn. It moves the meta back more toward the way it used to be. Meaning you have to be more vigilant in spotting new sigs. This is good gameplay. Concerned about gank squads all jumping through a new hole at once to catch any possible targets by surprise. Thinks this is rather unlikely though given the increased connectivity and player population spread.
Sig ID's persisting after DT: Awesome.
Mass/spawn distance: Mixed feelings. It was supposed to introduce interesting gameplay but didn't. It shook things up too much. The idea itself was not bad but the actual mechanic is wrong. Would rather reverse it (less mass = further away?). Players should get some control over how and where they spawn instead of randomness. It definitely favors big groups over small groups. It destroys combat rolling options which should be a valid tactic. There should be a clear counter-mechanic available to smaller groups.
Wrap-up: Pls keep in mind requested changes can take, like, 2 years to even reach development (don't we know it lol).
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Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 11:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:
You need to learn the meaning of TL;DR.
It went from a 3 post wall of text to a single post. Good enough for government work  |
Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm pretty happy with Asay's positions as they were laid out. I would like both CSM's pushing back on the mass/spawn distance changes. Besides the points he laid out, I just don't like having "stargates" in w-space. Its unoriginal. Its stale. Its too k-spacey. And it doesn't mesh well with mass limitations.
I'm also not satisfied with the "swiss cheese" effect of all the random holes and frig holes. These things limit player choice if you're in a small group. "Well we can do PvP today, same as the last 5 days", is not what I call player choice. It really is like picking up nickels on the freeway if you're a PvE guy in a small corp. Whats worse is CCP left in the mechanic where you can seal off your wormhole by crashing all the randoms and statics. So if you're a big group, no problem, just takes a bit longer to crash everything and if your rolling ships get jumped you can easily defend them.
But if you're a small group, you're just plain SOL. Buffing site incomes and "mini-escalations" will help, but I think it doesn't address the core problem with Hyperion ... that it was a "shaddap and eat your peas" patch, meaning less player choice and player control. The old w-space allowed a significant degree of player control over how your w-space home connected to the outside, and it allowed things like combat rolling to slam the door on blobs. The new w-space is almost actively anti-small gang and in many ways works against small groups trying to live in wormholes and experience the whole of w-space life (not just daytripping for PvP).
That's not to say I want w-space to be a friendly happy carebearville like a themepark MMO, but the swiss cheese and the "stargates" changes have made small PvE-oriented corps sort of an endangered species now. PI and wormhole POS industry remains viable, but that's not putting any worthwhile ships at risk doing that outside of cheap haulers. Most importantly Hyperion made the jump from highsec life to wormholes, say from highsec to a C1 or a C2 more like a cliff than a stepping stone. The risk/reward is really starting to look bad especially with ice being so valuable now, my noob recruits have no interest in running our wormhole sites, only PI and using our lowsec static for FW and roams.
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Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
99
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:
Free ships would encourage more players to PVP, but it doesn't mean free ships are a good idea.
Are you happier to lose your 2 bil clone if you lose a 1.5bil ship with it? Or you just don't take any fights where you could possibly die? If you don't realize that this is all about your personal tendency towards risk aversity, I must be talking to a moron.
I'd rather kill Rek in his "free ship" and cheap clone, then not have anything to do at all. Does that make the point sufficiently?
But frankly, if he's a rich *****, I'll probably still get a decent killmail. But its choosing between having a shot at one, and not. Take it or leave it, 's what he's saying. |
Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
99
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 16:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:What's that? A blocked post? Must be another troll alt....
So, Asay, what is your personal take on limited clone swap in wormholes? (Trying to brig this back on topic a bit) I envision something like a very limited number of clones available and only being able to jump, say, every 12 hours. I say 12 instead of the jump clone 24 because we wouldn't be jumping across New Eden and it would encourage new engagements while also encouraging you to make the right strategic choice.
There should be a price to pay for doing this. Not necessarily time-wise. I've been trying to think of something that would encourage more firing of large guns at things. |
Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
100
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 04:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Asayanami Dei wrote:scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:LT Alter wrote:Thanks for the reply Asay.
Also, while trying not to get off topic of the thread I would like to propose an idea for the people talking about the wormhole space jump cloning. Say there was a structure added for it, lets just call it a mobile cloning facility for simplicity sake. This structure would allow you to make new clones and store one clone (per person) at a time. You can swap your clone from it using a regular jump clone time limit, if you get podded you can not 'jump clone' back to it for 48 hours, and to jump clone to the facility it must be activated by another character with a certain skill so it can't be a random no-skills alt character. Or it could just be a jump clone swapping facility with no ability to jump clone to it but rather only to swap clones while in space next to it. For the sake of putting everyone on the same level, I am against being able to jump into it. This would give large groups even more of an edge over smaller groups and tends to go against established wormhole philosophy in a pretty radical way. I think 1-2 clones, per person, would be best. Even better if CCP could find a way to make it 1-2 clones per wormhole and not just per module. Jumping of any kind is a no-no. I don't think I have to explain why that would be bad. Swaping implants is the general idea simply because it would allow for more, different doctrines then the usual. People often specialize greatly in what they fly and what implants they use to acount for that. Adding the ability of easier swaping of implants (clones) would in my opinion simple loosen up the meta in w-space at least. THe mechanics of this are something that needs to be hashed out. It's on the little things list for w-space already. This needs to be approached very carefuly not to make it OP. It is also not easy to do.
Yeah there ought to be some kind of price to be paid to swap clones. One of the biggest problems is instant clone swapping in your home system makes home-field advantage even greater than it already is. There's huge advantages to clone swapping to fight a group on the offensive. That is, if they don't catch you by surprise.
I'm not sure I'd like to see it implemented behind a POS shield. One idea I had, was to make this thing an anchorable that could not be placed in the same wormhole that you have an anchored tower belonging to your corp/alliance. You'd then have to go to your neighboring static to anchor it and use it. This would make it so everything could be shot at and it would be harder to use against an offensive force. Reinforcement would be on the table as a nod to expensive clones being put into it. Like 2-4 hours. Enough time to scramble a fleet but not so long that you'll lose it to a wormhole collapsing naturally nor would a contesting group lose access to it barring either side risking a combat roll.
This would open a lot of pew pew options without necessarily breaking the idea of clone-swapping for everyday use. Course everything including swapped clones would need to be added to killmails.
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Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
100
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 09:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Asayanami Dei wrote:
It's on the little things list for w-space already.
OK so I know there was a thread authored by Corby for this. But where's the list? Can you guys post the list and get it stickied?
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Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
104
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 04:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Not arbitrary... I mean, yeah you could make it a POS array. But it would end there, barring an eviction or negligence. That's mostly boring.
Would be better if this had to be done outside the POS shield in one form or another... I.e. for the privilege of swapping clones you need to put some assets at immediate risk. And then balance that around potentially billion isk clones going into this swapping device.
I like epi's idea, but there are two issues. First, implants should be stuck in your head until you die. So I think lore-wise it wouldn't make sense if now all of the sudden you can take them out in exchange for another set. So I would say we would have to relate this still to extra clones like JC's but without the jumping bit. Second problem is site access. The swapping service would be subject to the randomness of the particular site being available. That would hamper its utility.
Obviously I like my idea, because it would make clone swapping available 24/7, but it would require leaving your home system and exposing assets to do it. So even a group like NoHo or LH could get caught by a smaller gang roaming through. And reinforcements from the home system would be limited by the static connection. Naturally, all these groups are skilled at scouting and will easily find an empty static for this and a defense fleet on standby, but if they make any mistakes or get lazy then we have a very nice conflict-driver on our hands.
Small groups can also do the same thing but could attempt a very stealthy swap that nobody will see - using an outermost planet or a deep safe that's out of dscan range. Would be good stuff for everyone if things like time-at-risk are well-balanced. |
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